Welcome to the TFC Commodity Trading Forum.
Please feel welcome to join in on these informative ongoing discussions about trading futures and commodities.

The Trading Forum is intended for the open discussion of commodities trading. The management of this Forum does not agree or disagree with the ideas exchanged, and does not exert editorial control over the message posted herein. Read and post at your own risk. The risk of loss in trading or commodities can be substantial. We discourage the use of this Forum to promote trading that is acknowledged to be risky. Please note: many links from the Forum lead to pages on other web sites. We cannot take responsibility for nor endorse the information presented on those sites.

TFC Commodity Trading Forum

Re: re: Managed Futures Accounts

Here is a edited version on the writing of this Middle Eastern ES day-trader,great stuff enjoy!

These people have not started the really hard work - the work they need to do to be successful traders. They will have to spend weeks or months watching markets trade. They will have to take notes on what they observe and start building a mental map of market behavior. They will have to learn to exercise judgment is assessing the market's condition and trend - and to have confidence in their judgments and the courage to act upon them.
On these forums hundreds of people talk about how to be a profitable trader. But most of them not profitable themselves, at least not to any significant degree. Speaking as someone who makes ALOT of money from the markets I say that it was never a specific system or price action setup that finally made me consistently profitable. Rather it was my extensive study of market behavior, of the "tells" it gives that help me identify the market's trend. I had to learn to embrace the inherent ambiguity of all market behavior - to learn that there are no certainties, only probabilities. I had to create my own interpretation of everything, even though I used the knowledge I found in books about the market and trading as a starting point.
I am now able to trade without a system, without a detailed plan but with money management. All the guru's say YOU NEED a specific entry and exit plan but I don't use one.
Believe me, the reason MOST traders lose is because they fail to embrace uncertainty. They try to convert the inherent uncertainty of market behavior into something that is a sure thing. They spend fruitless hours trying to find a system of setups and signals that will make money in the markets. They don't learn the $tick relationship to price themselves but instead look online and see what others have found. They are unwilling to do their own thinking . They don't spend the time needed to develop their own skills of market observation and interpretation.
It took me 4 months to become profitable. Many of you won't believe this. But the reason I was able to do it so fast was because I cut out all the crap. You may believe you are working hard - you may have been up for 8 hours last night testing if the strategy you just read about in a trading book is a good one.
But I say you haven't really started doing the hard work yet. Until you do you will remain unprofitable. You won't find the high-probability, profitable setups you seek. To do this you must first study the market's behavior and understand it - learn how to identify the market's condition and trend. Only after you have mastered this aspect of market interpretation that you can you work with setups and signals. It will be your understanding of the market's trend that turns your setups and signals into high probability, profitable ones. Setups and signals by themselves cannot do the trick - they cannot turn you into a successful trader. They do not incorporate and understanding of the market's trend and condition. They miss something that only your personal judgment can provide.
Let me give you an example that might open your eyes. Have you ever played a shooting game like Call of Duty 4 or Halo 3? The players who are very good at these games haven't got a system, they don't spend up at night thinking about the best place to camp with a shotgun. They practice playing the game. They master it. The difference between a winner and loser isn't that the winner knows a secret, or paid someone to teach them the secrets, or have a system of using power-ups to beat people. The winners win because they are more skillful, they have learned how to play, they have mastered the game. They have a better aim than other player, but this isn't through a combination of indicators like 'Press UP + B'. It's through skill,skill, skill, skill.
The same is true of good athletes in any competitive sport. They don't plan their moves against their opponents in advance. Instead they play by following general principles they know work time after time, and they rely on their game experience to make the right play in response to their opponent's action in the context of the specific game situation.
Try hard to think about what this means. I think it demonstrates my point quite clearly. The good players are genuinely skilled. They do not follow mechanical rules in their play, rules that anyone could learn by reading a book. Whoever heard of a football player becoming great by reading a book on football?!! But aspiring traders seem to believe they can become good traders, make good profits, by reading books on trading and checking out the statistics of every setup and signal under the sun! What's wrong with this picture?
A genuinely skillful trader is someone who can apply his knowledge of market behavior in any context, in any environment. In some situations he knows that certain setups and signals are genuinely useful, but in other situation he avoids those same setups and signals like the plague.
CONTEXT! It's all about context. Stop trying to trade on signals and setups that pretend that the market context is always the same. Embrace uncertainty! Embrace ambiguity! Embrace change!

Here's the situation as I see it for most users on the forum. You've have been spinning your wheels while thinking that you are getting somewhere. You are trying to learn how to trade in the wrong way. I see that most aspiring traders focus all their attention on "set-ups" and on finding out which combinations of indicators work. But these people are never going to become profitable. Why? They are following the advice of trading books that say trading is simple and psychology is everything. So they search for set-ups that 'work', and they hope that these setups can take the guess work out of trading. They want to be "disciplined" and have simple rules that guide all their actions in all contexts. But I have got news for you: you CANNOT take the guesswork out of trading!!!
I offer this opinion as someone who started last year with $30,000 and ended with $150,000 without a single losing month. I think I was successful because of the way I went about learning and what I focused on. My learning process was very different from the ones suggested on this forum. I learned that while psychology is huge it is not everything. And while trading is all about simple principles, actually having an edge is NOT simple. It's a myth that you can have a couple simple price or indicator set-ups and make money consistently if only you are disciplined. That's a load of crap. It keeps the dream alive for wannabe traders who never realize what trading is truly about.
Trading is about being okay with ambiguity. It's about tolerating confusion. It's about sitting with discomfort and being at peace with it. It's about not having an exact script of when to trade or not to trade, or what's really a high odds trade, and being okay with that. It's about exceptions to the rules. It's about contradiction. It's about uncertainty.

And yet traders left and right want to make it simple and certain. They want to reduce it to a few simple set-ups to trade with discipline. But the market is not simple. The market is all about uncertainty, and complexity, and ambiguity. Simple set-ups could never capture that, and they can never give you a true lasting edge.
So what's the solution? Is the problem in the simple set-ups themselves? No, it's how they're being used. The bottom line is that every trader needs to learn to READ the markets. This means that simple rules will not do. There has to be a synthesis of different elements (whether they be price action, indicators, inter-market themes or whatever), and real-time interpretation must take place. It has to be all about CONTEXT. Once you can read the markets in an unbiased way you can then choose to employ "simple" set-ups to enter and exit. But the real work will be in learning to READ THE MARKET to see when you should use which kind of set-up. Seeing a hammer or whatever near a support means nothing unless you've identified the broader picture and gotten a sense of the kind of tactics you should be using, and what the odds are for different scenarios unfolding.
Now I know most traders try do this to some extent, but their main focus is on the set-ups. It's not on reading the market from minute to minute, hour to hour, figuring out the odds of it doing this or doing that, adapting dynamically, and thinking of trade ideas from all your observation as the day unfolds. Rather, it's waiting for some simple set-up to pop up and then taking it.
Is it easier emotionally to have clear set-ups to wait for and trade in this simple manner? Absolutely. But who said 'easy' would make you money? If I've learned anything, it's that the market rewards what is hard to do. It's hard to have ambiguity surrounding your market reads. It's hard being uncertain. It's hard dealing with competing and sometimes conflicting signs. But this is an inevitable part of the trading process. You must stop trying to avoid it by demanding that things to be clear cut. Yes, I know, it is hard to be disciplined when there's so much ambiguity, so much uncertainty about just what trade to make. But as a trader it is impossible to eliminate uncertainty. Don't try to avoid it by looking for simple set-ups or some straight-forward, simple, always- right method. Instead, train your mind to deal with the uncertainty.

How can you learn to do this? You must be constantly engaged with the market, always trying (and often failing) to figure things out. You must learn from experience.